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 Meeting Summary
Community Meeting 2– January 29, 2004

Members:
Richard Bonewits
Richard Derham
Mark Endresen
Dave Gering
Steve Goldblatt
Arun Jhaveri
Sharon Maeda
Jim Montgomery
Bill Ptacek
Kathleen Royer
Steve Williamson

Consulting Team:
Berk & Associates, 206-324-8760
Bonnie Berk, President
Marty Wine, Senior Associate
Cherienne Tibbetts, Associate

Council Staff:
Scott White, Council Staff, 296-0324

The Commission on Governance meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m., Seattle Center Northwest Rooms, Shaw Room, by Co-Chair Steve Goldblatt.

Commission members present: Richard Bonewits, Richard Derham, Mark Endresen, Dave Gering, Steve Goldblatt, Arun Jhaveri, Sharon Maeda, Jim Montgomery, Bill Ptacek, Kathleen Royer.

Members of the public arrived at 6:15 to be part of a straw-poll public exercise to indicate their preferences related to the governance structure of the County.

The co-chairs, Steve Goldblatt and Dave Gering, opened the meeting explaining the composition and charge of the Commission. Our group was asked to study, identify options for change and make recommendations to the King County Executive and Metropolitan King County Council addressing the provision of County services, the funding of those services and the County's governance structure. This the 2nd community forum the Commission is hosting to seek input and ideas of the public and community about our work.

The preliminary recommendations for the first three phases of the Commission’s work are in draft form and the Commission is working on the governance and political structure of the County now. The meeting focus is primarily on governance issues: whether County offices should be appointed or elected, partisan or non-partisan, what the composition of the Council should be. The Commission will hear public comments on earlier phases and will bring our recommendations together into a final report in February or March.

The Commission recognizes that there is a ballot measure out there addressing one question in our scope of work, the size and structure of the Council. The Commission intends to conduct its assigned work without regard to the specific ballot proposition regarding the size of the Council that is scheduled for the next general election. The Commission will not be taking a position on this specific ballot proposition. Tonight's meeting is intended to provide a neutral forum for public comments on several governance subjects being studied by the Commission including the size of the County Council. To the extent public comments may be offered that relate to a specific ballot proposition, such comments should not be construed as expressing the views of the Commission.

The Commission asked for comments focused on the most important issues related to this work. What information is very important for the Commission to consider about the governance and political structure of the County? Materials from this meeting are available in other formats if members of the public request them.

Public Comments:

Jim English, 22828 Admill Road, Vashon, WA 98070

Representing Vashon-Maury Island Unincorporated Area Council. Size of County Council doesn’t need to be changed. This would cause the County to do more with less as it has been doing for years. Council members have many responsibilities - regional committees, constituent casework, and public appearances. Executive should remain elected as a check and balance on the Council. Sidebar: Commission’s charter includes how services should be provided – the permit agency, DDES, is handcuffed by a huge array of laws and little flexibility. Their fee-based system creates a costly and onerous structure – there is a duck-and-cover mentality – people don’t like to deal with DDES because it’s such a negative experience. Commission should make recommendations to remedy this.

Pat Herbold, 845 106th Ave NE #110, Bellevue, WA 98004

Representing King County Republican Central Committee. Addressed issue of partisan or non-partisan government. Senator Charles Sumner: "Through parties, principles are maintained above men, and through parties, men are held to just responsibilities." Key point is for government to be accountable to the people. Parties are organized to control the principles and philosophy of the role of government in society. Candidates are elected because of adherence to philosophy of government - when a 2nd party exists there is a source of organized opposition causing us to test these philosophies with the public. Some argue local government functions are technical - challenge this notion with several rhetorical questions: is the allocation of our tax dollars administrative? The philosophy of government is linked to the kinds of criminal justice or social services, land use, growth management services that are provided. Elections are about how we wish to organize ourselves as a state. Most voters - 2/3 - in Washington, identify with either the Republican or Democratic parties. Those voters want to know where a candidate stands and their philosophy of government and partisan labels help with the decision. Non-partisan governments have their place in small single-purpose governments. The County now represents nearly 2 million people. A candidate's general philosophy is especially important and should be shown to voters. A shift to non-partisan structure would not be an improvement and would mean a shift in power to organized special interest groups. Without parties to provide a volunteer support base, candidates become captured by special interests. To be successful, a party must be broad-based and centered on general approach. Principles, responsibility, and limitation on powers of special interest groups are the benefits of partisan government and should be preserved.

Janet Anderson, 4560 W Cramer St, Seattle, WA 98199

Brought testimony from Washington Citizens for Proportional Representation. A smaller County Council could better represent county voters. When members speak about number of registered voters who live in their district, there's no way that one person can represent the full spectrum of voters in their district. The current winner-take-all system does not reflect the political makeup of the district. Instead of having 2, 3 or 4 parties to choose from, most of us are forced into limited choices of 2 or one party. If we are in the political majority we have someone to represent us but if we are in the minority we have no representation at all. In a proportional voting system, sizeable minorities would also have representation at the decision making table. The single-member district system allows for no representation for minorities. Most of the rest of the world uses a system that has some degree of proportional representation. The Commission should learn more about this - offer the County imaginative recommendations.

Jeff Doppman, PO Box 86, Seattle, WA 98111

A: The county has 17 collective bargaining units. There are 3,000 unrepresented and 10,000 represented employees. The County does not have similar "Metro" duties for wastewater and bus service as King County.

Skyway resident. One of the few areas not yet annexed by a city. We should not be talking about reducing the size of the Council because it would water down the importance of local groups. The larger the area of representation, the harder it is for Council members to reach voters and this would give the power to special interests. Our geographic area is very poor and residents can't usually take part in meetings like this. Keep the Council size the way it is - this is not a problem that needs to be fixed. None of the Council members have any spare time - putting work on fewer shoulders means lower levels of service. Our councilmember helps us and also tells us the truth about problems, and options to solve problems. Regarding limits on tax revenues, I remember that most initiatives did not pass in our area locally. I am waiting for the Council to talk about funding options within King County. Let's fix our funding options. I understand that it costs money to provide these services.

Paul Locke, 308 E Republican St, Seattle, WA 98102

Supports commission model of government. Supports cutting social services. At the time the County took money from the federal government, the County bureaucracy grew. Executive would become one of the Commissioners in rotating 4-year terms. The other mistake the County made was allowing unionizing of the workforce.

Jared Karstetter, 22102 17th Avenue SE, Suite 200, Bothell, WA 98021

Legal adviser for King County Corrections Guild. Three subjects to address: size of council, partisan vs. non-partisan, elected or appointed sheriff. Commended the Commission on announcing their straw vote - seeing what was reported in the newspaper brought him out to comment. Has been around the County for many years, as an employee and representing bargaining units in King County. Our group canvassed King County and every citizen asked "why 9 members on the Council, why not 7 or 5?" Many members of the public would support a further reduction. Encouraged the Commission to continue to research this issue for recommendations. Right now there's an anomaly - politicians are being viewed as career-oriented - candidates are running unopposed because minority parties don't have a chance. I was involved in the debate about elected versus appointed sheriff and the charter amendment. The corrections and sheriff's deputy guild supported an elected sheriff because the appointed sheriff was hamstrung in the ability to get a budget message across to other elected officials. County is now paying an overtime lawsuit this year because the Sheriff was unable to advocate for his own budget. This could have been resolved if the budget needed had been provided.

Q: In Bellevue, the city manager meets with council early in the year and throughout the year to get a sense of what the top priorities are for the City. Then than feedback comes to departments to set priorities and develop the budget. Please contrast this situation with an elected executive form of government.

A: I think that the appearance of the elected executive form is that many activities are significantly more political due to type of government. This requires the executive branch to get the council to go along with executive branch policies.

Valerie Huntsburry, 7061 NE 137th Street, Kirkland, WA 98034

Resident of Juanita for 28 years. The bipartisan nature of our county state and federal governing bodies has been around for over 200 years and reflects broad agreement about principles and philosophies of government. Our 2-party system allows these philosophies to be presented to voters. Parties hold their officeholders accountable, voters hold officeholders accountable, and in non-partisan governments this accountability is lost. 2/3 of Washington voters identify with some party. If parties do not recruit candidates, who will? Will special interests dominate elections? Parties by nature are groups of general interest. County issues are not technical or administrative – law enforcement, social services, transportation needs must be balanced. Issues of taxation are important and the Council must balance spending and taxation. Please retain the bipartisan nature of the Council.

Cathy Allen, 123 W Boston, Seattle

Speaking against self-interest as a political consultant: advocating for fewer elected public officials. Here to convey/express what people in King County have said in polls and focus groups over the last year. There was a record low turnout in King County elections last year - only 7% of those under 35 voted in off-cycle elections. Why is interest so low? Trust in all of government is in question. People see a difference in which positions should be elected or appointed. For example, positions that represent legal or cherished view in society should be in appointed positions. Auditor - don't franchise out this complex task to an elected official. It should be depoliticized and above reproach. New technology must be in hands of best, honest, regarded professional, locally and nationally. It is the minority of countries that have elected elections officials, sheriffs, and judges. Canada does not have elected judges. We should keep the partisan elected offices as they are right now and leave the appointed ones alone. With an appointed sheriff we wouldn't be worried about the person starring in a miniseries on TV.

Ross Marzolf, 231 26th Avenue #310, Seattle 98115

Member of minority party in the City. Supports partisan government. Means greater accountability to the public. People don't know who to vote for - everyone has a philosophy underneath even if they say they are non-partisan. More truthful and easier to run with a partisan label.

Julie Holbrook, 15651 SE 265th St, Covington, WA 98042

Lifetime County resident and Mayor of City of Covington. Speaking to retain partisan status of offices. Believes that all elected people should be partisan including judges - people should know what philosophies and leanings they have. The public regards non-partisan to mean that people don't act in a partisan way, but those of us in government knows there is no such thing as non-partisan. Reality and human behavior dictate otherwise. Voters need better and more information to make good voting choices. City offices are typically non-partisan, including their boards and commissions, but imbalances always occur and some are left without a voice.

Bob Ferguson, 8255 2nd Avenue NE, Seattle, WA 98115

Newly elected member of County Council from District 2. Attending the meeting to listen. Appreciates the work of the Commission. Ran for office and size of council was a significant issue and he supported the reduction in the number of Council members. His opinion has not changed - still support the reduction for 2 reasons: financial (severe budget shortfalls with cuts to parks and social services). The Council is not inherently any different from other county services and during this belt-tightening the Council must take cuts. Also a symbolic issue - Council should show that they can lead by example even if 4 jobs from the Council must be cut. Important message to send. Last thought: how a question is framed helps to provide an answer. If Council was 9 members, should we increase the size? Why would we do this at a time of fiscal stress?

Q: Do you think nonpartisan offices would create more competition in districts that are overwhelmingly Republican or Democrat?

A: My strong feeling is that partisan elections are a good thing as the former chair of the King County Democrats; as a lawyer I represented the Washington State Democratic Party and I find great value in partisan elections. I ran as a Democrat against a 20-year incumbent and the race was decided in the primary. The fact that it was a partisan election made no difference. I was still able to run an effective campaign where I could talk to the voters and hear what they had to say.

Dan Merkle, 1325 4th Avenue #940, Seattle, WA 98101

Attorney and resident of Seattle for 23 years. Member of Center for Social Justice, King County Bar Association Drug Policy Project. Also chaired a panel on race and class disparity. I’ve immersed myself in the criminal justice system and worked with people and communities impacted by the system and it’s ripped my heart apart. The phrase “war on drugs” is really a war on individuals’ families and communities impacted by ineffective policies. In my law practice I have worked on Chapter 11 reorganization and our criminal justice system needs a major restructuring just like that. Law enforcement, judicial budgets will overtake other County needs by 2010. Important to put this into context – policies in 1970s were based on rehabilitation and we switched into a policy mode of punishment that we have not been able to pull out of, because our politicians are afraid of being labeled soft on crime. I continue to hear about petty cases that go to court wasting tremendous resource. Good alternatives have been developed and we can’t wait to shift our policies for a few more years. The recommendations you have are thoughtful, and the public is in support of a major departure from this punishment model. The Sentencing Guidelines Commission came out with recommendations 10 years ago saying that non-violent drug offenders needed treatment instead of incarceration; a public health model rather than an incarceration model. Note that 3 counties in last 2 years that have defeated large levy increases to support the criminal justice system. Increase safety in communities not by putting vulnerable people into cages, but providing them with supports they need. The African American male is 23 more likely to be incarcerated for drug use than a white male. Yet drug use is not higher for communities of color – this is unfair and unjust. 99% of those who go into the judicial system are poor. I hope the Commission and public will push and demand for more effective policies.

Bruce Mulvey, PO Box 171, Bothell, WA 90840

Executive Director of Northshore Youth and Family Services. Northshore Community Health and Safety Network and represents Alliance for Human Services. Secure funding for human services is very important. There is a program that exists called the Juvenile Intervention Program. The program began because King County arrests about 250 youth each year who are first time non-violent offenders. Usually they are taken to the Alder facility in Seattle with attorney and probation officers assigned to the case, using a great deal of juvenile justice resources and generating costs to the system. Police would prefer to bring kids to local service agencies. Now the police officer brings the youth to the home - either kid would be arrested or agree to 3 months' treatment in an agency like NYFS. Biggest factor is we get to work with the parents for 90 days. The program is now 5 years old and the comparison with the County program is striking. 27% County vs. 6% program recidivism rate, $21,000 per kid arrested at County versus $800-$900 for Northshore program. The program relies on local social service agencies for implementation. We need solid funding to provide these programs.

Terri Kimball, DAWN, South King County, Seattle

Seattle resident and Director of Domestic Abuse Women's Network. Comment on draft recommendations. Alliance for Human Services came together in 2002 to address need for stable, dedicated funding source for human services. Ron Sims threatened to cut funding in 2003-2004 and because County support for services was not mandated. County funding for human services are always at risk. Criminal justice costs are expected to exceed all costs by 2010. Adequate funding for human services is a more effective policy for promoting public safety than the overuse of incarceration for non-violent offenders. It is better to preserve $30,000-per-year jail beds for dangerous people and help people with less costly community based social services. Mentally ill and drug addicted people need help, not incarceration. We serve battered women and children and believe we should hold abusers accountable, sometimes in jail, but it is imperative to provide services to victims too. Commission recommendations about human services, investment in prevention and intervention services - we agree.

Eddie Rye Jr., 5560 South Holly, Seattle, WA, 98117

Seattle resident and representing National Black Chamber of Commerce, co-founder of Martin Luther King celebration committee. I am here to recommend that the County Council remain at 13 members. In one district there are 42 languages spoken. Councilmember Ferguson was able to doorbell his district and win - democracy must remain at the grassroots level. Don't let the one with the greatest war chest win these seats. Saving only $1 million by reducing the Council in the context of a new large wastewater treatment facility being built and the other regional services the County provides seems out of balance. Likes the idea that any ordinary citizen can serve regardless of resources needed - if the system is not broke, don't fix it. What is the problem really? Locking up people for low-level offenses. I have been involved in the Mental Health Coalition and learned that these people who are incarcerated really need treatment. The money is there but the priorities are out of line. As long as young black men are locked up and become a burden on the state, priorities are out of line. All the money going to Iraq should be going to rebuild King County. Leave it like it is: Assessor and Prosecutor elected; Sheriff and Auditor appointed; partisan offices for Executive and Council. Look at what the real problems of County funding are. If you save $1M by reducing the size, does that really bring democracy to the County?

Miriam Helgeland, 3840 Star Lake Rd, Auburn, WA 98001

Leagues of Women Voters of King County have studied King County governance several times and through consensus have arrived at several positions on these issues. Government officials who make policy should be elected and those who need specific technical expertise should be appointed. Thus the Council and Executive should be elected and all other offices appointed. Citizens of the County should be given the ability to vote on whether offices should be partisan or non-partisan, and the only ones who can place that on the ballot now are the County Council, who are partisan. County charter amendments suggested by Charter Review Commission should go directly to the voters. No position on size of the Council except as it affects efficiency and accountability.

Dan Piecora, 13017 NE 112th St, Kirkland, AW 98033

County should provide safety, fire, police, and criminal justice system services, including drug court for drug offenders. Tax system, transportation system should go before voters in a levy or bond. Downsize the Council to 9 members or less. Executive should be elected, all positions should remain partisan. Should the Auditor be elected? Yes, because of the accountability issue. The Auditor or Comptroller should step in to ensure elected officials don’t pursue things that are illegal. I’m so busy as a business owner, collecting taxes for L&I rates and other taxes that I don’t have time to review all positions on the ballot. I skip over these because I don’t know where they stand. As many partisan positions as possible would help me to see where candidates stand. Don’t make it more difficult for me – the newspaper would end up choosing our candidates. I like the present system. On page 13-14 of your report about management accountability and performance-based systems, that’s the right approach. When I have to cut back, the government should cut back too.

Deb Eddy, 6200 Southcenter Boulevard, Tukwila

Executive Director of Suburban Cities Association. A member supported non-profit 37 cities, 250 elected officials. We circulated your questions and went to the Association of Washington Cities convention to talk to our members to approve my testimony tonight. We had about 23 different opinions. Size of council: cities have for some time supported a reduction in the number of members since the last Citizens Review Commission. Cities did support the expansion after the Metro merger because the Metro Council was a large council and excellent forum. That effect didn't carry over to the larger County Council. Some of the old-timers (serving 10 years or more) recalled that elected sheriff issue was opposed by cities because the appointed system worked well. The Sheriff being able to control his own budget was an issue, yet there is not any division head in government who would not like that. It is the function of the policy body to balance the needs of the community. Partisanship: the Council in 1997 decided not to put this issue on the ballot; partisanship has not helped countywide decision making. City offices are all nonpartisan, but most people know whether candidates lean toward the left or right. When you have factions (whether by party or neighborhoods and business) that become fixed, so that you can predict an outcome before the vote, that's a problem.

Lem Howell, 814 Lakeside Avenue South, Seattle

Should the county have an elected executive or appointed manager of government? I am an attorney. I sued the Mayor of Tacoma, Chief of Police and City Manager. I took two depositions from each of them. There is absolutely no accountability in that system. The mayor says "I just preside at the meeting and the City Council appoints the manager." The manager knows if they can keep 4 of the Council happy, he's in fat city. The Manager is not responsive to the residents of the City of Tacoma. In spite of the poor performance of the Manager the Council defended the Manager.

Heidi Carpine, 4663 36th West, Seattle

Seattle resident. Residents need good representation on the Council and reducing the number of members will diminish my access to the County Council. We are well-served by our councilmember who helps us work with the West Point treatment facility and has helped local groups learn about grant opportunities. We need an active councilmember with adequate resources to correspond with our constituency. Someone who represents many more people will serve none of them all well.

Bonnie reviewed the questions asked by the ordinance and suggested by the Commission's problem statement and suggested that to start discussions, the Commission should consider how to build a case for changing what exists now. Why does governance matter? The Phase 4 question is: "how would a change in political structure address the County's problems?"

Steve Erickson, 2809 40th Avenue West, Seattle, 98199

I was not aware of this issue before reading today's newspaper. Encourage Commission to think about the long-range impacts not just the current situation. Your recommendations should provide consistency. You are obligated to look at the statutory and economic and political environment, and this forum should list what is limiting and inappropriate - encourage the public to look at issues that create such an environment. Size of council: there will be a ballot measure. I encourage you to provide information that would be useful to the public on this issue. Relative size of workload by Council members is important. Provide data so the public can make meaningful judgments.

Q: Is it important that the County be an organization or an entity that gets things done?
Discussion: There are problems that need to be addressed and credibility and perception should be important. It is important to understand what we are dealing with and think about how County government can best position itself to deal with the environment it finds itself in. It is important that the community is part of the government and the decision making process. The reason that tax-limiting initiatives are successful is that there is a disconnect between what services people perceive they get and what tax dollars actually produce. The Commission should cycle back to Phase 1 - what services should be provided - prior to the end of the Governance meetings. The Commission could recommend that the Council adopt core services of government and go through the process of prioritizing what's important. In addition to the ICMA/professional manager position, the Commission should hear from an elected executive in a partisan environment. The group further discussed division of responsibilities on the Council with full committee considering issues versus committee structure.

Bob Rosenberger, 17025 426th Avenue SE, North Bend, WA 98045

Democratic activist and deputy assessor speaking on his own behalf. Nowadays we need a larger county council because of increased complexity coming from the Metro merger. We have a transit system competes with two other systems. We're building a sewage treatment plant outside King County and we overpaid for an intermodal garbage transfer facility. County has a lot to oversee and a smaller Council will lead to a larger staff, saving no money, and influence will go to unelected lobbyists. Bob Ferguson got elected by knocking on doors - don't replace front-porch politics with 30-second sound bites. Partisan offices: parties are the people. My activity in the party allows me access to governors and senators, and a lot of influence in organizing precincts; as much as if wrote a $1,000 check. A smaller Council will give more power to the media and they have enough power as it is. Also a member of the International Association of Assessing Officers. West of Mississippi, most assessing officers are elected; east of Mississippi, most are appointed. Leadership in our profession and organization comes from those who are appointed to focus on a difficult and arcane job. Elected officials spend a lot of time worrying about making it through to the next election. I think the sheriff should be appointed - we don't need someone who is a grandstander, but a professional. Many responsibilities come with running a county agency, such as a prosecutor running an office with 200 attorneys. In the interest of efficiency, these offices should be appointed. If Ron Sims makes an error in the personnel decision of the records and elections function, I don't know that we can trust the voters to make a better decision.

Marty then presented from a handout titled "Basic Forms of County Government Structure."

Miriam Helgeland, observer from League of Women Voters, suggested that one of the drawbacks of partisan offices is that some candidates run unopposed from the primary to general election.

Geoff Clayton, 15116 164th Avenue NE, Woodinville, WA

President of Unincorporated Upper Bear Creak Council speaking on own behalf. One size does not fit all. Respect the diversity of King County. Solutions are different for different problems. Rural area represents a different housing alternative and lifestyle. We have cities, people like local control; and let cities govern in cities. King County government should be responsive to local issues. Nonpartisan candidates can have different philosophies but are not tied to a particular platform that may not be relevant to the job they will be doing. Continue nonpartisan elected sheriff, auditor, prosecutor. Those who set policy should be partisan. There are things not as good in King County as they used to be. Some of the Commission's draft recommendations are "no-brainers" but it's good to see it in writing. Just because the Council members are busy doesn't mean we need 13; we need responsiveness to those who are governed, productivity, focus and clarification of responsibility. In urban areas we have local government so no need for lots of meetings between layers of government. Please remember the rural area is not a single entity - multiple areas with diverse interests. Ensure King County respects that diversity.

Q: Could you react to us, or could your Council - about the unincorporated areas township idea. Before we finalize, could you comment on this for us?

A: How the districts are drawn is another issue.

Tyler Page, 21024 132nd Avenue SE, Kent

Resident of Unincorporated King County and member of Citizens Election Oversight Committee. Fellow volunteer serving in small rooms, having odd conversations about things never knew existed. Recognition that County is going through great changes and not coping as well as hoped. Delivering election services in 2002-2003 is the charge of the Committee to observe the process and provide recommendations to Council about changes and approaches to ensure accountability and performance in the elections section. The Committee has taken no position on changing to elected auditor and our discussions have said: 1) elections are extraordinarily technical in technology and adapting to coming needs. In King County we have a new head of Records and Elections and superintendent of elections with strong professional background. Our observation is we are very impressed with progress made based on professionalism. Would it be better to choose this person through the political process or through chosen by Executive and confirmed by Council? 2) Elections are a core function of government because all look to the County to do the work to administer elections. Makes our system of government work and must be correctly funded. Can the election official advocate for changing needs, technology, and resources to make it happen? Increases in funding will make a significant difference - need to find some way for all elements of government to put enough resources to maintain the elections system. Integration of services such as technology seems like a good recommendation, but in some cases the approach has undermined the competence of staff to meet specific requirements. Specialized functions can't be solved by generalized problems. Commission would like to see Committee recommendations.

Jack Whisner, 8325 11th Avenue NW, Seattle, WA 98117

Resident of Seattle for 50 years. King County is a pretty well functioning government with about the right number of Council members. Metro Council had 45 members and transit and water quality are better run under King County than Metro which was a relatively weak government. Most of the big problems facing the County are outside the Commission's scope. Fiscal problems of the County are due to not having sufficient tax resources and too many responsibilities given to it by state government. Legislature has set up an awkward tax and governance structure. It might be better to give the County more to do - there are other governments out there such as the Port of Seattle - with the same boundaries, runs an airport and transportation and port, but has a weak legislative body and similar imbalance of power between staff and governing body that Metro had. There is also a 3-county high-capacity transit government but this is only truly relevant to Seattle and Bellevue because there is a willingness to tax themselves for these services is much higher in those areas. Legislature has set up a flawed system; the Commission's legislative agenda is therefore very important. Reference in materials to "regional" can mean everything or nothing. King County is a region unto itself but we can use the term "countywide" for activities within the County; when we talk about functions that cross county lines, then use the term "regional."

Janet Preston, 319 - 26th Avenue, Seattle

Most important thing about reducing the size of the Council is to ask who will be left without effective representation. There are populations that won't be represented. To people who are always represented, that won't matter. Commission was introduced as being diverse. There are no red, brown, or black people on the Commission, so it doesn't look and feel very diverse to me. An appointed sheriff with experience in law enforcement can be held accountable by elected leaders. I work in prisons and reducing incarceration is critical. African Americans make up 3% of the population in Washington state but 55% of the prison population. When you think about trying something to affect incarceration, start with this community.

Virginia Gunby, 2540 NE 90th Street, Seattle

This is the largest group I've ever seen at a discussion about County government. Former County freeholder and worked for County Council for 14 years. Questions presented for discussion were disappointing because there are bigger questions we should be talking about, such as money, and reform in County government. 5 questions would require amendments to the County Charter to be implemented. Usually this is the role of a County Charter Review Commission. Prefer you recommend to the Council they convene the Charter Review Commission, so you can spend your time on other issues. Council size: in 2000 census, with 1.7 million people, eliminating 4 districts would mean 193,000 in each district. Currently there are 133,000. Eliminating 6 would raise representation to 250,000. People want local government to be local, responsive. There were reasons that this issue was put on the ballot - so the question to change from 9 to 13 - is in question.

Kathryn Kaluzny, PO Box 2213, Renton, WA 98059

Lives in the rural area of King County; these questions have been considered before. Testified in front of Charter Review Commission about unincorporated area governance, plurality rule. Supports what Bob Ferguson said, supports elective Sheriff; since 9/11 more important to get a decent budget. Favors partisan races, which gives voters shorthand information about who to vote for, makes voting marginally informed; voter information packet does not provide enough information. Founding member of area council. Recommendation about new system to improve governance in unincorporated areas outside the urban growth boundary is interesting. Executive's remarks (governance, taxation and regulation go hand in hand) plus Municipal League recommendations would make a big difference. Small township-level Cedar counties would be welcome, with the opportunity for self-governance; state and county regulation makes living in the rural areas so difficult. Example: pulling noxious weeds would violate another level of government's law. Charter Review Commission has spent time on this topic. Make an effort to communicate directly to rural residents through meetings out there. The health department gave new septic regulations that are higher than an urban resident's. Need to align conflicting regulations from a predominantly urban government with needs in rural areas. Regarding labor costs for County could be achieved by reducing regulations might mean fewer employees needed to govern.

Andy Stephenson, 2442 NE Northgate Way, Seattle, WA 98125

Candidate for Secretary of State. County auditor - there are problems with electronic touch screens and problems with systems. King County is spending 3-4 times what it should be spending for a new system. An elected auditor would produce more accountability within the auditor's office.

Steve O'Donnell

Redmond unincorporated area resident. Small business owner. County should provide vastly reduced services. County is a bloated behemoth - should provide police, fire, sheriff, funded from the general fund. Services should be provided by reducing property taxes as a start which would put more money into the economy. Property taxes have doubled, tripled or quadrupled over the last 12 years. I feel like I rent my house from the government. Freeze hiring and require additional responsibilities from all county employees. There was a news story last year saying that of 15,000 county employees, most managers don't manage anyone or anything. An email coordinator 3 makes $63,000 per year. Size of council - the Journal poll says 18% support 13 members; 17% said 9 members; and 64% said 7 and/or 5 members. Most think 9 or fewer. Elected positions - supports having all elected officials and partisan offices including judges. Past president of Eastside Republican Club. It is difficult for the average voter to know affiliations. Support an elected ombudsman and putting the Charter Review Commission ideas on the ballot. Funding - if sales taxes for electronic transactions for city, state and local portions were automatically transferred many businesses would not get in trouble (businesses would not have to come up with the funding 90 days later).

Dan Brady, 4714 Latona Avenue NE, Seattle

Seattle resident. Size of council: have seen little evidence that it should be bigger, not a lot of evidence that it should be smaller. If there is nothing compelling about size, we should look at what other governments have done with smaller Councils. Elected or appointed: due to King County's ranking in size, anything that brings government closer to the public is a good thing. Executive, Assessor, Prosecutor, Auditor - I don't fear the public's decision making ability to assess the qualifications of the individual so they should be elected. Partisan/nonpartisan - Executive and Council should remain partisan. People don't base their whole decision on partisanship, but it is a good starting point. These labels don't require people to be part of just one party. In the limited space we have in the voter's pamphlet, people can learn more after seeing the partisan label.

Tony Orange, 722 - 18th Avenue, Seattle

Political action chair for Seattle King County NAACP and Executive Director of Central Area Motivation Program. With regard to Council size, support it as is with 13 members. Eliminating districts dilutes the potential for minorities to have fair representation. District 10 is 40% minority and District 5 is 57% minority. Elected or appointed offices: support Sheriff's office being appointed. Partisan/non-partisan: support current system. An improvement in the criminal justice system is needed; disproportionality is rampant in the system. I have visited facilities throughout the state and have many concerns. CAMP has a re-entry program that provides support for members reentering the community. On the front end, we need to do more, because this is a major issue.

Chris Arkills, 516 Third Avenue, Suite 1200, Seattle

Legislative aide to Councilmember Dwight Pelz. Fundamental disconnect in the way people view the County depending on whether they are from a city or unincorporated King County. The Budget Advisory Task Force recommended that County get out of business of being both regional and local government so County has undertaken an initiative to annex about 10 urban unincorporated areas. Our district includes several of those areas. Skyway is 9% of our district and I handle constituent relations for the district. I spend 1/3 of my time on issues there. There are no sidewalks, there are open drainage ditches, and the health planning district is the highest of all indicators for teen pregnancy, juvenile and adult incarceration - very challenging areas. Key is to develop relationships with people and departments. Power of having a reasonably sized district is strong. Larger districts would not represent people as well as we do now. Example: neighbor identifying crack house - Council's office has linkage to volunteer at sheriff storefront office. Volunteer noted information, relayed information to the deputy, and they shut the crack house down. People get problems addressed about roads, barking dogs. Until these annexations occur, the Council size should not be reduced. The regional duties of the County and Council are worth much more than the $2 million to be saved by reducing the Council size. Until local role is sorted out, would be doing a disservice to residents of unincorporated county to reduce Council size.

Steve Goldblatt, co-chair closed the meeting. The Commission has 2-4 meetings left. We appreciate what we heard. This was a very thoughtful meeting and the Commission will use this input to develop final ideas. Our ideas will be advisory to Council and Executive, and will be mindful of changes to charter, state law. If members of the public think of other issues in the next 2 weeks or so, email governance@berkandassociates.com or contact Marty Wine of Berk & Associates.

Commission co-chairs thanked everyone for their participation and the meeting ended at 9:45 p.m.